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Releasing a second cut of a movie that seems to generally kind of suck at a later unspecified date is kind of a bold strategy. They should been released simultaneously and audiences could "pick their own adventure" if there's any merit to the other cut. Instead I imagine a majority will never watch the second cut after being put off by the first.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
With regard to Battle Beyond the Stars, I don't know if it and Rebel Moon are all that comparable. Structurally, and this is a bit of a spoiler,
Spoiler:
A Child of Fire is only half the story while Battle Beyond the Stars is the complete story contained in a single movie. I wouldn't want to compare them before The Scargiver comes out and completes Rebel Moon's story.
Aside from that, I see more of an adventure story centered around the protagonist in Battle Beyond the Stars, while Rebel Moon feels like it revolves around the quest and the village more than the protagonist.
Furthermore the inspiration isn't quite the same mix of stuff. Battle Beyond the Stars has a good bit of Star Trek vibes in how it deals with different species and their interactions with each other, outside of the bad guy's merry band. Rebel Moon feels more down and dirty and closer in its portrayal to what we are used from Star Wars.
chaos0xomega wrote: Releasing a second cut of a movie that seems to generally kind of suck at a later unspecified date is kind of a bold strategy. They should been released simultaneously and audiences could "pick their own adventure" if there's any merit to the other cut. Instead I imagine a majority will never watch the second cut after being put off by the first.
It's a bit strange to have it presented that way, but if it's a deal where Netflix gets a version it can market to a wider audience and Snyder gets his edgelord cut, it's probably no different than if the movie has to cut down because Netflix simply refuses to deal with an R rating. At least that cut is out there and to the optimists among us it might not just be a better movie but also guaranteed to be released eventually.
I assume Justice League wouldn't have gotten the Snyder cut if it hadn't been for the studio's desperation to salvage the DCEU, and we'd be stuck with only the original version to "choose" from. I prefer that one, but it's better to have both so you can actually make that choice.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
If Snyder hadn't had to walk away from JL I doubt that the cut would have been the same we got as The Snyder Cut. It would have been different from the Whedon version, obliviously, yet it wouldn't have been the four hour version either. Less long takes of walking and women singing to the ocean for a few minutes, I imagine.
A Snyder cut of Rebel Moon doesn't really make much sense as he wasn't forced to leave the project and he had great control over the it as well. The released version should be the director's cut.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/12/25 04:19:07
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Grumpy Gnome wrote: Geifer, thanks for such an ernest take on the comparison between the two films. I was genuinely curious about the similarities that may exist.
Thank you for bringing up Battle Beyond the Stars. In spite of how I feel about the comparison it is a really good example of a movie that is a very obvious product of its time, and quite interesting to think about. The martial focus of the story owes much to Battlestar Galactica, probably Buck Rogers (I haven't watched it in forever, but the movie version also focused on planetary defense against a capital ship if I remember correctly) and the recently so successful Star Wars, including a planet killer and farmboy hero. In spite of that the species design, environments, a measure of wonder as the protagonist explores space, and philosophy of the guys in need of rescuing all go back further to Star Trek. You can see the mashup in much the same way as people commented when the trailers for Rebel Moon came out.
I haven't watched any modern Star Trek, but classic Star Trek (that's pre-J.J.) seems to be completely absent from Rebel Moon. Is it a product of its time in the same way as Battle Beyond the Stars? I honestly don't know. Star Wars is an enduring property and there's no shortage of it in Rebel Moon, as has been mentioned so often already. I suppose the movie is big, dumb and flashy, which is something studios have been pushing with Star Wars, superhero movies and the odd sci-fi movie in the last decade or so. I guess you could ask the question if Battle Beyond the Stars is a Corman Movie and Rebel Moon is a Snyder movie, but I'd also want to refrain from answering the latter until the R-rated version is out for review. The touch of the maker is probably where you'll find the real similarity between these two movies.
Truth be told, Rebel Moon is the kind of movie that would probably look better with a smattering of blood and boobs. And by smattering I mean the exact opposite. It's kind of empty and doesn't have much of a selling point right now. It very much is a style over substance movie. Might as well go all the way instead of settling on a lukewarm compromise between vision and marketability.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
2023/12/25 18:26:22
Subject: Re:Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Paet 2)
And for Christmas, we get the teaser for Part 2, The Scargiver:
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2023/12/25 19:06:43
Subject: Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Paet 2)
Andrew1975 wrote: They already got me on the first one....I'm not wasting any more time on this series.
I'm morbidly curious, so if I still have Netflix in the rotation when it comes out, I'll check it out. I sat through Kenobi, Ahsoka, Book of Boba Fett, Mando s3 waiting for them to get good, so what's another couple hours of my time?
I've already forgotten all but 2 of the characters names (Nemesis + Noble lol) so it'll be like watching a whole new movie.
I wanted to like it, but its just an aggressively lukewarm product.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2023/12/26 19:15:42
Subject: Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Part 2)
Rebel Moon is nowhere near the league of the shows you listed. At all.
For some, those were merely disappointing. But they had redeeming features.
Rebel Moon has no such features. It’s dull. It’s uninteresting. It’s actively boring. The effects are wildly uneven. I can’t comment on the plot, because it just so, so boring I couldn’t have cared less about the heroes, villains, nor who was doing what, let alone why.
It’s dull. It’s uninspired. If it wasn’t so remarkably boring, it would be entirely unremarkable.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Rebel Moon is nowhere near the league of the shows you listed. At all.
I mean, like... it really is though. Disney's efforts at Star Wars are only marginally (at best) better than anything Zack Snyder puts out, you just don't have nostalgia blinding you to Snyder's faults the way you do with Star Wars.
For some, those were merely disappointing.
Telling people how they feel about something is not a great way to start a discussion in good faith about this comparison.
2023/12/26 19:40:13
Subject: Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Part 2)
Yet Rebel Moon stands as an example of genuinely bad movie making. Not something which is 6 or 7 out of 10 being touted as awful.
Book of Boba Fett is flawed, for instance. I enjoy what’s there, and don’t overly worry myself about the rest. I’d give it 6.5 out of 10. Mostly because whilst the plot is a bit crap? It’s still there, and we get many very cool scenes. And for Star Wars, some new toys going stompy blasty.
Obi-Wan? Comfortable 7/10 for me. The only bit I found outright silly is the “Leia hiding under the cloak”. Some bits, such as Kenobi getting his ming on and giving Darth a right good kicking? 10/10 for me. Overall, not quite the sum of its parts.
Ahsoka? 9/10 for me. Loved that show, and everything about it.
Mando S3? 8/10 for me. Lots of good stuff. Points deducted for diddling me out of a glorious Star Wars space battle.
Rebel Moon? Just. Nothing. Without any hyperbole, I genuinely have nothing good to say about it. I couldn’t finish it. At no point did it pique my interest or provide any moments of excitement. It plodded along, and eventually I realised “I’ve no idea what this is about, but worse, I don’t actually care that I’ve no idea what this is about”. I wasn’t even that distracted at the time. I was puppy sitting, and Dallas was being a good boy and having a cuddle on the sofa. It had a good deal of my attention, and failed to provide any reward.
It’s…sterile. I think that’s the right word for it. Devoid of life. Devoid of warmth. Devoid of anything of any interest to me.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Pretty damn close to each other and all pretty accurate imo. If these were test scores that I brought home from school, they're all failures on the grading scale that I grew up with and I'd be repeating some grades.
Individual scores like you had are a matter of taste and opinion, and it will vary.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/12/26 20:51:04
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2023/12/26 20:53:26
Subject: Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Part 2)
Go. Read them. Because they bear absolutely no relation to what I saw on screen.
"That's a negative, Ghostrider."
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2023/12/27 04:32:42
Subject: Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Part 2)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Yet Rebel Moon stands as an example of genuinely bad movie making. Not something which is 6 or 7 out of 10 being touted as awful.
Book of Boba Fett is flawed, for instance. I enjoy what’s there, and don’t overly worry myself about the rest. I’d give it 6.5 out of 10. Mostly because whilst the plot is a bit crap? It’s still there, and we get many very cool scenes. And for Star Wars, some new toys going stompy blasty.
Obi-Wan? Comfortable 7/10 for me. The only bit I found outright silly is the “Leia hiding under the cloak”. Some bits, such as Kenobi getting his ming on and giving Darth a right good kicking? 10/10 for me. Overall, not quite the sum of its parts.
Ahsoka? 9/10 for me. Loved that show, and everything about it.
Mando S3? 8/10 for me. Lots of good stuff. Points deducted for diddling me out of a glorious Star Wars space battle.
Rebel Moon? Just. Nothing. Without any hyperbole, I genuinely have nothing good to say about it. I couldn’t finish it. At no point did it pique my interest or provide any moments of excitement. It plodded along, and eventually I realised “I’ve no idea what this is about, but worse, I don’t actually care that I’ve no idea what this is about”. I wasn’t even that distracted at the time. I was puppy sitting, and Dallas was being a good boy and having a cuddle on the sofa. It had a good deal of my attention, and failed to provide any reward.
It’s…sterile. I think that’s the right word for it. Devoid of life. Devoid of warmth. Devoid of anything of any interest to me.
Agreed. The Star Wars stuff is leagues better. The big difference is you have a Star Wars fan base of which, half hate everything new because its not perfect, or doesn't jive with the fiction they have made up in their own head. Do I like Boba Fett being, well, very un Boba Fetty...Yes, but its still mostly coherent and the plot makes SOME sense. Can I knit pick them all day for stupid stuff, you bet, especially because I know how star wars stuff is supposed to work and those mistakes stand out to me. Had I no history with the franchise, I'd probably think they work pretty well for the most part.
Rebel Moon makes zero sense at its core and is awful on every level. I don't understand how anyone has given it a positive rating, I'm very interested in how much viewership falls off for the second movie. I've read some of those reviews and I can't even believe I was watching the same movie. Either I have a cognitive disconnect, or maybe the younger generations want something else in a movie, but I cannot understand any praise for this movie. I have to think a lot of those reviews are fake.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/12/27 04:40:15
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"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
2023/12/27 12:07:55
Subject: Re:Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Part 2)
I started Rebel Moon, and while it was a firm "ok", it loses out in my watching because the same holiday weekend I finally got a chance to watch The Creator on Hulu, which even with a somewhat predictable ending, is quite a bit better in terms of scifi cinema.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2023/12/27 18:30:44
Subject: Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Paet 2)
I bailed at the griffin. The pulled right from Harry Potter, bow to it and ride it the first time griffin.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
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Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
2023/12/30 16:19:45
Subject: Rebel Moon - Official Teaser Trailer (Part 2)
What I think is that that Zack Snyder will always be a divisive guy. He has very distinct strengths and weaknesses as a filmmaker, and his biggest fans and critics tend to entrench themselves in one side of that and ignore the other.
I'm not sure I understand either end of the spectrum in this case, because Rebel Moon felt just kinda 'meh' overall to me. It had some of the issues that people have discussed, and also felt a little slow/dull, which surprised me. On the other hand, LOTS of genre stuff that people praise isn't really any better. Geeks consume TONS of mediocre-to-gakky content that's just as derivative etc., so for them to pile on this one feels a little disingenuous or agenda-driven. I liked some of the visuals and thought it had a pretty good cast, and those things still count for something.
I think the comparison to the non-Andor SW shows feels fair. I watched it and didn't think "I'll never get those hours of my life back". But then it didn't hold my attention terribly well, and I didn't come away enthused or thinking I'd ever rewatch it. Basically it was a typical genre streaming show to me...decent enough to have on in the background while painting miniatures or something.
Edit: I would LOVE to be able to visit the alternate universe where it got made as a SW film. Would be a fascinating experiment to see if it gained 'geek points' for the label, or if it lost points for 'ruining SW and childhoods' or whatever.
Gitzbitah wrote: I bailed at the griffin. The pulled right from Harry Potter, bow to it and ride it the first time griffin.
Harry Potter didn't exactly invent the 'break the bucking bronco' scene for all cinema, LOL.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/12/30 16:22:33
There was enough old west stuff going on, I felt this was cribbing from The Magnificent Seven, and not the Seven Samurai. Copy of a copy.
The pacing/editing seemed a bit off. Like it was a collection of scenes and not a coherent movie. That might have just been the side quest, gather the party nature of the movie though.
I also got the “edited for TV” vibe real hard from it. Those fights? There should have been gore splashed around. Also a couple places where it looked like a sex scene had been clipped. If you are going to style over substance, go all in. Could have used more gratuitous sex and violence.
I’ll probably watch the second one when it comes out, but will have a good drink first/during to help turn off my brain just to enjoy the spectacle.
Well watched it last night. I mean, I enjoyed it for what it is. Its a Zack Snyder movie and was about as Zack Snyder as it could be. Enjoyable enjoy to shut my brain off and watch which is what I prefer with movies like this.
I must say though, for a film that was originally pitched as a Star Wars movie them amount of 40k references is kinda off the charts, even saying the main character was in the Militarum.
I mean come on!
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Now it's become practically Snyder's go to for some reason. He wants to do a special Snyder cut of Sucker Punch too.
More than anything, the Snyder Cut was a result of the pandemic causing studios to look for anything they could pull together from the back room to sell and WB needing something high profile to sell people on HBO Max when everyone had to prove they had a viable streaming platform.
It's definitely not what we would have gotten in 2017 if Snyder hadn't stepped away. HBO had resources to burn and put a good chunk of additional budget in while their VFX teams were stuck at home.
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