Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

thy will die

I'm really looking forward to Dark Eldar. After I finish updating my IG with their codex redo, I will be prepairing myself for a darker path, because some armies just don't have enough "kink."

I'm curious to know if they're keeping any of the original models or just chucking them all and completely redoing the full range. From what's been said about what's being worked on conceptually, their bikes and skiffs are all being redone, the warriors are as well. Those are all their plastics leaving just the metal models which are alot more easily tossed out.

One of the more persistent rumors that I'm not sure if I like is that DE will be made into more of a "Chaos Eldar" with a Slaneeshi bent.

Well they essentially are "chaos eldar" except they worship Khaine (who is now basically khorne to them), and slaanesh directly. Its eldar society with strong influences by those two gods.

That rumor really comes from the computer game "Dawn of War: Soul Storm" where the game developers for that did a bit of a slannesh slant. This may or maynot be the case, since they got input from GW design staff but were also given a degree of creative license.

I think going so far as to say they are "chaos eldar" is a bit of a misnomer. While their are parts of their character that embrace aspects of chaos they live a more disconnected relationship from it then say Chaos Marines. At best I'd call them agnostic chaos worshipers, where there is an acknowledgement of the possibility of the supremacy of chaos, but not a direct worship. The dark eldar are not as much chaos worshippers as they are the Aspects of Eldar that share common attributes to chaos.

I wouldn't take anything from any of the dawn of war game as canonical. Great games, but oh god did they have miserable stories.

I agree on Dawn of War. Just saying thats where that rumor kinda came from.

The new cool DE codex and plastic figs is on my "to buy"-list for 2009.

It will be sooo sweet.

The DE are still in limbo, and I still think the DE are going to get Squatted, eventually. That's what the evidence strongly suggests.

Every year, rumors pop up saying that DE are "in progress" and will return as an uber army like the WFB Wood Elves. The latest was that Jes Goodwin was making new minis (*not* the Eldar Jetbike or Juan Diaz' test Haemonculi). None of these rumors offer the slightest shred of proof, so this appears to be more wishful thinking than anything else.

It'd be nice to see whether the GW still cares about the DE, but it sure doesn't seem like it. Pity, really.

I think that Dark Eldar = Chaos Eldar is a bit older than DOW. In the secondedition codex there was a lot of discussion of Chaos worshipping Eldar, and when 3rd came out with DE in the box set, the presumption was that that's what they were.

Dark Eldar will be the must have army of 2010, or possibly 2011...

I would rather have GW take their time and get the concept right than just release a bunch of cruddy models and rules. It's the same thing GW did with Wood Elves and Orks! People b!tched and moaned about both armies for years!!! But the Wood Elves are fantastic and the Orks... WOW! They really rock... my favorite army out there... GW just needed to find the best way to present them and the their rules. Be patient and in the long run you will be rewarded...

Grot Rigger

Grot Rigger wrote:I would rather have GW take their time and get the concept right than just release a bunch of cruddy models and rules.

They've had ten years so far.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The DE are still in limbo, and I still think the DE are going to get Squatted, eventually. That's what the evidence strongly suggests.

Let's see now. Who should I believe? Brimstone or JohnHwangDD? Brimstone or JohnHwangDD? I dunno. I guess I'll just flip a coin.

I think the fantasy Dark Elves give us a sense of what GW can achieve. After almost 10 years these had better be some of the best work they've done.

ShumaGorath wrote:Well they essentially are "chaos eldar" except they worship Khaine (who is now basically khorne to them), and slaanesh directly. Its eldar society with strong influences by those two gods.

DE worshiping Khaine? I have never heard such a thing in all my years of hungrily consuming DE fluff. I think you have them confused with dark elves. DE worshiping Khaine is almost as ridiculous as the notion of DE worshiping Slaanesh, the one being that they despise above all others.

Archonate wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Well they essentially are "chaos eldar" except they worship Khaine (who is now basically khorne to them), and slaanesh directly. Its eldar society with strong influences by those two gods.

DE worshiping Khaine? I have never heard such a thing in all my years of hungrily consuming DE fluff. I think you have them confused with dark elves. DE worshiping Khaine is almost as ridiculous as the notion of DE worshiping Slaanesh, the one being that they despise above all others.

In retrospect I think you're right. I'm mixing the fluff up with the bloody handed one from fantasy. Though they do worship slaanesh and are changed by its influences, whether they would admit it or not. They are pre fall eldar and they are living the lifestyle that created slaanesh. Thousands upon thousands of years later. The same hubris and pride that empowers slaanesh wont let them admit that that is what they are doing with every slave they rape/eat/make fight other things.

Pariah Press wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:The DE are still in limbo, and I still think the DE are going to get Squatted, eventually. That's what the evidence strongly suggests.

Let's see now. Who should I believe? Brimstone or JohnHwangDD? Brimstone or JohnHwangDD? I dunno. I guess I'll just flip a coin.

As I've said before, just show us *something* to demonstrate new DE are real...

How about *you* show us a rumor posted by Brimstone that turned out to be false?

Pariah Press wrote:How about *you* show us a rumor posted by Brimstone that turned out to be false?

He stated that the DA FAQ would allow new SM equipment, even after Phil Kelly blatantly told LAGD attendees they wouldn't.

Platuan4th wrote:

Pariah Press wrote:How about *you* show us a rumor posted by Brimstone that turned out to be false?

He stated that the DA FAQ would allow new SM equipment, even after Phil Kelly blatantly told LAGD attendees they wouldn't.

But the DA FAQ does allow you to use the new SM equipment, with opponent's permission of course.

Thats such a cop out.. With your opponents permission you could give DE all space marine stats yet keep weapon options.. With your opponents permission you could reduce the cost of a baneblade down to 20 points.. with the permission of your opponent you could sleep with their wife

Wow GW is telling us we can do something if we both agree? Thanks for putting that in a FAQ!

To be fair, there's been some false alarms with DE in the past. The moves that have been made seem to make it likely that GW is at least thinking about dropping the entire line. They won't Squat them, of course, but they could end up as 40k's Chaos Dwarfs: a list and some OOP models.

On the other hand, there was the statement that all codexes will be supported. Anybody want to bet their life on a GW promise?

Codex: Orks shows what a smartly written book can do for an army. Throw in some non-fugly minatures and it's clear that people are willing to jump on the Xenos bandwagon. Everybody always forgets that DE were fairly common in the late 90's and early 2000's. In addition, the models in 1998 weren't amazing, but compared to many of the options they were actually an improvement. It wasn't until 4th edition killed the old gun boat list and the models went from "new and meh" to "middle aged and increasingly ugly" that interest began to dwindle. With no new model support or rules, the list sank further and further into the dread realm of having about a half a dozen good units.

In the modern game, a fast mechanized army with great shooting and decent assault based around troops is going to be a success! Add in models that look more like the art in the DE book than like sculpting dollies with spikey bits attached and people will build the army.

The DE have some interesting fluff aspects that can be played up. Introduce different cabals, show the inner fighting, give the player some pathos. Discuss the Machiavellian politics of Commoragh. Emphasis their tragic depravity: the need to destroy to avoid destruction. The best DE fluff bit didn't appear in the codex, it's the story Vect tells the prisoner. Amazing stuff. I can't be the only person that wants to hear some Archon describe the first time he heard a Tau try to explain the "Greater good" to him. That would be amazingly dark and funny.

Unlike squats, which were basically T4 IG with bikes and guns (of course IG had those too...) DE have strong bit of both fluff and gameplay staked out.

Pariah Press wrote:How about *you* show us a rumor posted by Brimstone that turned out to be false?

FFS I'm not infallible I do get things wrong, in this case I'm not.

JohnHwangDD wrote:As I've said before, just show us *something* to demonstrate new DE are real...

A comprehensive set of model releases both in plastic and metal including new units?

As for showing you, well I can't do that yet.

Can you tell us when you can

Brimstone wrote:FFS I'm not infallible I do get things wrong, in this case I'm not.

Sorry, man. I wasn't trying to put on the spot (or on a pedestal). I was just annoyed by Mr. Hwang's unreasonable demands.

Pariah Press wrote:

Brimstone wrote:FFS I'm not infallible I do get things wrong, in this case I'm not.

Sorry, man. I wasn't trying to put on the spot (or on a pedestal). I was just annoyed by Mr. Hwang's unreasonable demands.

No worries

I just don't want people taking my word as gospel.

Ghaz wrote:Can you tell us when you can

Well no direct info until the person/people who provided it gives me direct permission to do so, that's the way I work.

Until then I can hint, direct and make broad statements.

I can say that the model range both plastic and metal and in very good hands.

Pariah Press wrote:How about *you* show us a rumor posted by Brimstone that turned out to be false?

I don't need to. To date, every time I've said there won't be new Dark Eldar, it's turned out to be true. Now if someone would just *show* something, that would be awesome.

But getting wound up over nothing but a whisper? No thanks. Just show me.
____

And as for being "unreasonable", I don't think I'm being unreasonable at all by asking for "something (anything). That's not much at all.

After all the false alarms, "trust me" doesn't hold any water.

Polonius wrote:They won't Squat them, of course, but they could end up as 40k's Chaos Dwarfs: a list and some OOP models.

You are aware that the Chaos Dwarfs and Dogs of War have both been effectively "Squatted", right?

Neither army is even listed on the GW website.

Neither list has an Army Book, so neither army is eligible for play at official GW events like GTs.

Anyway, for those not awash in fantasy, again here are some salient points regarding the Dark Eldar:

Phil Kelly confirmed at the LAGD that he was currently writing the DE codex.

Jes Goodwin confirmed at the last LAGD that he was currently working on the DE models.

GW does not tend to show off miniatures for releases until they are 3 months away so just because they haven't shown anything doesn't mean that work isn't rapidly progressing.

Reliable people who tend to get to see things early claim to have seen the new DE models (Brimstone, Moloch, and in this particular case I'll include myself).

There was at least one art tidbit that slipped out, in the form of the new splinter rifle in the last batch of CAD stuff that was shown around the events.

The design changes shown in the 5th edition rulebook for the Dark Eldar may possibly-perhaps match these possibly-perhaps new DE models.

In short, DE are not going anywhere.