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sourclams wrote:Yeah except that's really not how it works. Try it. Like, in a game. Also, take your ritalin. It helps your typing skills.

It's also not at all a given that the Nobz are guaranteed to get the charge versus the Ironclads. Screening tacticals, for example.

Unfortunately, there are two units of bikers. If the tac marines are spread out, a feint multi charge against all the tac marines pulls them all out of screening (due to "pile-in" before combat starts) leaving the other squad of bikes able to multi-charge the Ironclads, or just zoom past them to charge whatever is behind. The warboss is at risk of getting S10'd though, and in this scenario, he may benefit from an Uge choppa (all the nobz would truth be told) as well as his Klaw.

I beat 1 unit in the gt with sustained firepower over 1 turn of tyranid shooting with vcannons and stranglers, and then assaulted it with stealers for tie up and then shot it after I broke out of combat with the 2nd squad

the 2nd squad fought an implant tyrant with guard and 3 fexes, and I just barely beat that one. I broke combat just in time to turn at the remaining 3 nob bikers in the 1st squad and level them with the remaining tyrant and 2 fexes.

I wouldn't say that was the way to beat this army, but I can definitely see some more value in cc nidzilla after this last gt.

checks stockpile of fexes for 6 cc monsterous creatures, CHECK!

Apparently noone at the GT was up to the challenge of taking on Nob Bikers with Basic Marines, much less ones that just stand there and shoot. I dont remember any stories of 'tough' battles against basic marines and I roomed with two of the guys playing them, including the winning list.

Nob bikers dont care much about marine shooting, not with the cover saves availiable.

I doubt a properly run BikerNob army cares much about any shooting that a Marine army can bring. Specially since the last game of the winning list during the tournement was a SAFH Dark eldar list with PLENTY of instant death shooting.

....marine instant death shooting doesnt compare to that.

The dark eldar was beat pretty soundly as far as I remember.

By the way, one good peice of news....(or irrelevant depending on your tastes)

Apparently the BikerNob list doesnt scale well at all at 'Ard Boyz level.

Obviously, two units of Nobs arent all they're cracked up to be when facing off against that many points of shooting/hordes/armour 14 or even raw non power weapon attacks. (I saw a full biker nob unit and warboss sent packing by an ork charge of over 100 attacks not including claw attacks)

So, on topic for the post as a whole, thats one thing you can do....play bigger games.

A 600+ point investment of Warboss and 9/10 Nobs means a lot more in a 1750 pt game than it does in a 2500 pt game.

yes it does... but at 2500 you can see a possible 40 nob bikers...

I would have to say the only way to really beat the nob bikers is to out perform them in the assault... where they are good. Shooting them will NOT help you

frgsinwntr wrote:yes it does... but at 2500 you can see a possible 40 nob bikers...

Thats a lot of expensive conversions. Or non wysiwyg models.

Deadshane1 wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:yes it does... but at 2500 you can see a possible 40 nob bikers...

Thats a lot of expensive conversions. Or non wysiwyg models.

Don't put it past me. I loved every minute of making my Kroot Nob armada.

I would have to say the only way to really beat the nob bikers is to out perform them in the assault... where they are good. Shooting them will NOT help you

I agree. Of course I do play deathwing (which give me a slight advantage) so once I get in close with those powerfist those nob bikers began falling like flys. When I played them I tryed to outshoot them but they just would stay back and take the saves. So I drew them in and assaulted them. This worked very well. The only problem is if they figure out a way to stay out of assault then your SOL. With space marine a LRC with 8 Thunder Hammer Storm Shield terminators should do the trick. I think for any space marine player the key to beating them will be to get big squad or mutiple squads of terminators into CC with them.

I didn't notice if anyone else mentioned it but... thunderfire cannons with tremor shots. They force the unit to move as if in difficult terrain and force them to take dangerous terrain tests. This will slow the nobz AND force them to test without the benefitof their toughness and saveS.

I have been thing a lot about thundefire cannons.... a whole lot.

ender502

Bikes aren't slowed by difficult terrain, but the dangerous terrain checks are killer!

On the 'Ardboyz thing:

The 'Ardboyz winner was rolling Kairos + big units of Bloodcrushers, right? That'll laugh at a Nob Biker squad. If the Bikers assault the whole cloud they just lose, and if they don't assault it all whatever portion is unassaulted counter-charges for the win.

On basic marines vs. Nobs:

What about just going Mech? You drive up in a flotilla of rhinos, lined up so they can't surround any one of them completely. They assault, pop a few squads out, you counter-charge with EVERYONE and all fall down? Then you win because whatever combat squads you've got left are > than their grot units.

I'm thinking of running 3 LR Deathwing at Adepticon. It seems like it would have a decent chance vs. this list (and still not do too bad vs. other lists).

What do you think, could a pure termie/LR force give the Nobs a run for their money?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

No question. Multiple LR + Termies will make it look easy.

I haven't played nob bikers but I've played the 1 wound version.

Basically my LR pretty much stop him from outmanuvering me. Also moving 12" is great!

A shooty squad (inq Lord) was a decoy for the bikers allowing me to deal with them lata-game.

Flame Templates are great (incinerator was ace!)

Also another trick I found was to make a wall of Terminators forcing him to either attack them or go round them and force at least 2 difficult terrain tests between 2 turns.

Also they don't have grenades? So mhm using cover would be good.
Suprisingly I havn't seen anyone mention the buildings....

The basic tactic I would use is to eliminate the fastest unit, If I found their manuverability and threat was high, with concentration of fire.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/221211.page

Bikers can't get to any level except the bottom level of a building meaning they will be left pulling wheelys outside your backdoor while you shoot em off their bikes... So put your objective on the 2nd floor (remember they measure from their heads instead of their base with vertical objectives so parking underneath could contest a level 1 objective)

And yh I had 2 LR's... but then again only 2 troop choice.

Moz wrote:No question. Multiple LR + Termies will make it look easy.

This army is looking more and more tempting for me to take to Adepticon. I think so many people will be kitted out to beat Hordes and cover saves that my LR's and Scoring Termies will be extremely hard to take down.

And I'd only have to paint 20 models!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I agree. That is why I am had planned on doing the same thing except I would only have 2 LRC and 5 Squads of terminators.

storm knight wrote:I haven't played nob bikers but I've played the 1 wound version.

Basically my LR pretty much stop him from outmanuvering me. Also moving 12" is great!

A shooty squad (inq Lord) was a decoy for the bikers allowing me to deal with them lata-game.

Flame Templates are great (incinerator was ace!)

Also another trick I found was to make a wall of Terminators forcing him to either attack them or go round them and force at least 2 difficult terrain tests between 2 turns.

Also they don't have grenades? So mhm using cover would be good.
Suprisingly I havn't seen anyone mention the buildings....

The basic tactic I would use is to eliminate the fastest unit, If I found their manuverability and threat was high, with concentration of fire.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/221211.page

Bikers can't get to any level except the bottom level of a building meaning they will be left pulling wheelys outside your backdoor while you shoot em off their bikes... So put your objective on the 2nd floor (remember they measure from their heads instead of their base with vertical objectives so parking underneath could contest a level 1 objective)

And yh I had 2 LR's... but then again only 2 troop choice.

hmm interesting... where is the rule that says they can't go up a floor?

PAGE 83
"MOVING WITHIN RUINS"

bikers can only be on the ground floor of a ruin

If you have enough upstairs, the ork nob bikers can never assault you

They can sure shoot ya though, with a crapton of dakkaguns.

Thats interesting. You could technically put your objective on a building and never have to worry about the enemy trying to take it.

works against dark angels ravenwing as well

Deadshane1 wrote:
So, on topic for the post as a whole, thats one thing you can do....play bigger games.

A 600+ point investment of Warboss and 9/10 Nobs means a lot more in a 1750 pt game than it does in a 2500 pt game.

I have found this to be the case with almost all armies in 5th.

Since Min/maxing has such a large drawback in Kill Points, the best armies tend to use units that are really expensive and resilient (Land Raiders, Bloodcrushers, Nob Bikers, Hive Tyrand and Carnifexes, etc.). There is almost no thought given to the Force Organization Chart since folks hit the points limit on the game before they run out of slots. Running a higher point game means that the FOC once again begins to limit an army.

I've gotten to the point that I think anything less than 2000 points doesn't really need to worry about the FOC and is much less balance. I've had good success with balance at the Ard Boyz limit of 2500 as well.

Someone brought up the fact that someone could run 40 Nob bikers at a high enough points level. That is true, but the real threat here isn't just the Nob Bikers, its the T5 Ld10 warboss running with them. Remove that, and a few str8 shots can make the Nob run right off the table.

Wow, that buildings thing is pretty nasty. Even my jetbikes will have to watch out for that. Lame.

What about multiple units of banshees vs. a single (Doomed) Nob unit? I'm considering Biel-Tan as an expansion of my mech army, as I'm getting bored with flying around shooting for 3+ turns. 36-54 S3 plus 6-8 S7 PW attacks with re-rolls to wound won't do it, will it? I also worry about getting shot up first once the Banshees get out, if the Nobs fake in and then stand off for a turn or two to shoot. Do you think BLs on all the (5+) Serpents plus a couple Prisms could make playing dodge 'em less appealing to the Nobs?

Jetbikes can change levels, just ground-bikes are stuck.

can you actually put objectives on different levels other than the ground level though? I'll have to go look that up to see if its a valid "defense".

Might have to start modeling the bikers with a Contestin' Pole if this catches on. Just a big stick that goes up 3" or so to contest objectives on higher levels.

Moz wrote:Might have to start modeling the bikers with a Contestin' Pole if this catches on. Just a big stick that goes up 3" or so to contest objectives on higher levels.

May have to model my sisters with a "contestin pole scissors" ;p

Moz wrote:Might have to start modeling the bikers with a Contestin' Pole if this catches on. Just a big stick that goes up 3" or so to contest objectives on higher levels.

A shame that you measure from a model's base.

Democratus wrote:

Moz wrote:Might have to start modeling the bikers with a Contestin' Pole if this catches on. Just a big stick that goes up 3" or so to contest objectives on higher levels.

A shame that you measure from a model's base.

acutally it's the models itself when measuring vertically, also a contestin pole would be against the ture LOS rules right?

Just the concept of a contestin' pole... Legality, morality, whatever aside. Love it.