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If thats the case and it wasnt negated in some way via codex then track guards will be so worth it.

Let alone the carnage one unit of close combat will do as they rip through the target packed soft environment!

Oh you poor CC bast.ard, you can no longer consolidate into assaults, and that Guard squad you just charged sure as heck ain't gonna last through your assault phase. So your gonna charge kill 40 odd points, then die to 200 lasgun shots, oh your a genius right there....

ubermosher wrote:Every time HBMC brings up Immobilized = Destroyed vis a vis vehicle squadrons, I feel compelled to mention that currently Track Guards can mitigate that, and I'm willing to bet that there will be a similar effect if Russes are available in squadrons.

We can only hope.

Ratbarf wrote:

Let alone the carnage one unit of close combat will do as they rip through the target packed soft environment!

Oh you poor CC bast.ard, you can no longer consolidate into assaults, and that Guard squad you just charged sure as heck ain't gonna last through your assault phase. So your gonna charge kill 40 odd points, then die to 200 lasgun shots, oh your a genius right there....

To balance this, lasguns will be S2, and all weapon upgrade costs will be doubled.

This is good to see. The thing with the current IG codex is that its too hard to tell the organization! So many different doctrines and so little difference in the models, and a complete lack of a good alternative like heads or weapons, makes it hard to play an IG army and know what i'm up against. He can look at my marnies and see the wargear on the model but "this squad as sharpshoots but this squad doesn't, this is company squad A for squads 1-4 and this is the command squad for my heavy weapons platoons...." it's like "dude your imperial guard tactics of confusion are working flawlessly. I'll just listen to whatever you say."

ShumaGorath wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Bawwhammer 40whine

I don't remember saying that...

Well whenever I said that I was on my way out the door and didn't have any time to write anything but my initial critical impression. I generally try to not let my harsh sentiments get in the way of fun. I prefer smaller more free formed games, games that are more about fun than structured rule sets. So I don't really like the trend these rumors follow. My main problem with the above rumors is this, it follows all of what I percieve as the worst trends of this edition.
+Crowded table tops
+Special Characters defining the army
+Increased scope at the expense of detail
+Pre-constructed Units
+Marginalized Vehicles

If those are the things you want to see, then I am happy that you are happy. The way I see though, GW is moving more and more towards every game being Apocalypse sized just with fewer points and I think that can get old pretty quickly. I enjoyed kill team and patrol games from the previous edition which allowed me the benefits of both Rogue Trader and the then current rules. The direction GW is moving makes those sorts of detail oriented game impossible.

I'm glad when GW does new models especially when they are truly well crafted minatures. However lumping variants into the same boxes while practical do not neccesarily equate to being any sort of deal, it only gives GW justification for upping the price a year from now.

But those sets aren't supposed to be deals. You're buying a Chimera (e.g.) for the price of a Chimera, and getting some other parts for your bits box.

The reason it's better than the current set up is the plastic kit should be easier to build (metal LR Crusader parts anyone?) and you'll get parts you don't need that are nice to have for other stuff (Orks Orks Orks Orks).

I know what you're saying and I probably should have been pickier about my choice of words. We don't know if we'll be getting a chimera for the price of a chimera or if we'll get a chimera for the price of a hellhound. The perception of a deal is that you're getting something you weren't before, for the same cost, but GW always justifies consumer gains with eventual price hikes. The follow up to that is, even if we get a chimera/hellhound combo-kit for the price of a Chimera wouldn't we be better off with a purely Chimera kit for $5-$10 less instead of pieces we may or maynot use?

I agree the plastics are alot easier to assemble and it will be good riddance to metal-plastic hybrid vehicle kits. The time saved on not having to work with those, that is the real deal.

Good points. I was glad to see the price of the LR Crusader went down to the price of a normal LR when it became plastic even though it included the new Redeemer pieces.

I was expecting it to stay the same as the old hybrid kit cost given the extra option pieces you'd get with it.

Guess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out on release.

I'm guessing the reason the Crusader/redeemer went down is because they took out the Landraider's lascannon sprue and switched it out with the new sprue, rather than just adding an extra sprue as has been the case with other kits. But then again I haven't gone out and bought my redeemer, yet.

The Grundel wrote:This is good to see. The thing with the current IG codex is that its too hard to tell the organization! So many different doctrines and so little difference in the models, and a complete lack of a good alternative like heads or weapons, makes it hard to play an IG army and know what i'm up against. He can look at my marnies and see the wargear on the model but "this squad as sharpshoots but this squad doesn't, this is company squad A for squads 1-4 and this is the command squad for my heavy weapons platoons...." it's like "dude your imperial guard tactics of confusion are working flawlessly. I'll just listen to whatever you say."

This was a big problem for me at first, I couldn't even remember what my own troops did. Eventually I just started taking doctrines that the whole army could all use or i'd forget stuff. I still forget to drop in my drop troops sometimes

I hear you on that. The current codex is deffinitely too complicated for growing scale of the game.

So... nobody but me is excited that you can take nine Leman Russes in one army?

Oh Me likey a lot...as long as they have Track Guards as an option still.

Capt K

Pariah Press wrote: So... nobody but me is excited that you can take nine Leman Russes in one army?

Seeing as track guards are on the accessories sprue I'd say that they are still an option with the new codex, unless they turn it into extra armour somehow.

Who knows maybe in all GWs wisdom they recognize the disadvantage of vehicle squads and decide to make it only half as much of a disadvatage, maybe the track guards will come standard?

Who knows? Smoke and search lights have become standard issue for most imperial vehicles, just look at the marine and Inquisition vehicles. Even the Baneblade comes with those as a standard these days.

BrookM wrote:Seeing as track guards are on the accessories sprue I'd say that they are still an option with the new codex, unless they turn it into extra armour somehow.

OTOH, Purity Seals are on all the SM sprues, and they aren't a option any longer...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BrookM wrote:Seeing as track guards are on the accessories sprue I'd say that they are still an option with the new codex, unless they turn it into extra armour somehow.

OTOH, Purity Seals are on all the SM sprues, and they aren't a option any longer...

Yeah, but they sure look purty....

GW's mind is changed so easily, probably why it takes them as long as it does to make magzine sized codices. Really we never know what to expect till someone's holding a printed copy.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BrookM wrote:Seeing as track guards are on the accessories sprue I'd say that they are still an option with the new codex, unless they turn it into extra armour somehow.

OTOH, Purity Seals are on all the SM sprues, and they aren't a option any longer...

Wait.. They ever did something? I always thought they were just decoration.

GW's mind is changed so easily, probably why it takes them as long as it does to make magzine sized codices. Really we never know what to expect till someone's holding a printed copy.

The space marine codex is like 150 pages. The old ork codex was like 30. I think their making progress in this regard.

Yes, they are making progress. It fills me warm happy happy good good rainbow feelings...

...but it remains to be seen if they will maintain the trend of bigger thicker books or if it was a way to milk marine players (composing 50% of all GW sales) of a couple more dollars for what is to them only a marginal amount of additional work and will revert to "easier" to manage codices for less profitable armies... or even if GW will complete a full production cycle by providing codices to every supported army before they change editions.

The eldar and chaos books were pretty fat too. I think we're well away from the old days of wafer thin 10 dollar army supplement books.

Back in the days of 3rd edition purity seals were a piece of wargear from the marine codex, as far as I remember.

ShumaGorath wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BrookM wrote:Seeing as track guards are on the accessories sprue I'd say that they are still an option with the new codex, unless they turn it into extra armour somehow.

OTOH, Purity Seals are on all the SM sprues, and they aren't a option any longer...

Wait.. They ever did something? I always thought they were just decoration.

It used to be that Purity Seals let SM pursue farther.

Yeah, you're going "huh, WTF? how does sticking a piece of cloth to my armor make someone run faster?" But that's how it was in the 3E SM Codex.

What was weird was how a lot of SM had (still have) Purity Seals molded on their legs. So you never really knew if Purity Seals were purchased as wargear, or modeled as decorations. Thankfully, GW got away from Purity Seals having an in-game effect.

Same with the Spikes on CSM...

JohnHwangDD wrote:Same with the Spikes on CSM...

Same with Legions on CSMs.


- - - OR - - -

JohnHwangDD wrote:Same with the Spikes on CSM...

Same with Daemons on CSMs.


(/obligatory anti-'Chaos' Codex comment)

BYE

Spikey bits was one of the more entertaining and characterful upgrades that old Chaos had. I'm sad to see it go.

I kinda miss "Jones is acting strangely"

Railguns wrote:Spikey bits was one of the more entertaining and characterful upgrades that old Chaos had. I'm sad to see it go.

You can say that about a lot of things in the current 'Chaos' Codex.

BYE

Acid blood was a colorful tyranid thing too, except it was impossible to see what had it.

Upgrades kind of have to be non ambiguous to really work.