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The plus side is that you can deepstrike them into cover and not care.

Why do you say that?

They are no more survivable than any other Demon (barring Tzeentch, who is more survivable).

I'm pretty sure I know why but I'll see what the answer is first.

Like the rest of what you said.

The plus side is that you can deepstrike them into cover and not care.

easier said than done, i have had it more than enough times where a unit scatters miles away.
sometimes a run can help, but if its too far concider the unit pretty much dead.

What about those of us that don't worry about tournaments, and just enjoy the aesthetic of a scratchbuilt Slaanesh army?

I agree with stelek... there are only a few builds deamons have that can be competitive... and I haven't seen the list posted her yet on Dakka dakka :(

ialdabaoth wrote:What about those of us that don't worry about tournaments, and just enjoy the aesthetic of a scratchbuilt Slaanesh army?

I think this is fine. I like armies that look fantastic and they are fun to play against

I think viable lists are all in play style. I've found that most people get very opinionated about what is a bad unit but very rarely use that unit with other options in which it shines (granted beasts of nurgle only shine in an tallyman list which i'll never field so that is one unit that is just out).

My biggest challenge is my elites. I love flamers, fiends and bloodcrushers and have all of them. My troops are pretty solidly built around bloodletters, nettes and horrors. I'm looking at a plaguebearer unit too but it might be a bit. I've got my screamers(gotta try them before i give them up) and my seekers (awesome models and rules). Got khorne dogs to but they will probably not see much use in 40k (they rock in fantasy) and i'll be alternating my heavies regularly to see what I like best.

I'll see if demons are competitive or not starting in the next few weeks when I get home and start to get some games in with them I'm looking forward to it and truly think they are a solid list that will require a different type of style. I could be wrong but I've yet to run an army as my tournement army that didn't go at least 2-1 at every RT i go to and normally more like 2-0-1 or 3-0. Which could just mean I run into easy opponents or that i'm insanely lucky but i'd like to think i'm not to shabby at playing with my little toy soldiers

Well a Deamon List won the ArdBoyz finals.

Really? Well that is interesting. Have they posted the results yet or were you there? Thanks

http://gwuscommunity.com/?p=351

It should say Chaos Deamons and I personally know the winner.

Plus got 3rd at Balty. Can we finally lay to rest the fallacy that it is not a competitive list?

In a nutshell, what are the competitive builds at this point?

The main ones I have seen so far

3 soul grinders

and/or

nurgle/khorne

and/or all khorne

and/or khorne/slaanesh with 4 heralds

- the early leader for the broken list, the epidemius blender doesn't seem to be so broken after all.

Well the guy who won used Fateweaver and blood crushers so that's probably pretty good!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ah yeah bloodcrushers are great (always my mvp - don't know how I didn't list them above specifically)

i'm a massive crusher fan, often a 4/5 man unit, with full command and occasionally a herald, that way the wounds can be spread and they will always hit their target

Its not to hard to win with demons if you get to cheat with them.

Other then that the Bloodcrushers are really all that good, regardless of what you have for them as HQ. Heralds or personally I prefer Bloodthirsters.

They can be really good but you are trusting to chance, you might get totally screwed with your reserve/DS rolls and it will loose the whole tourney for you in 10 minutes of bad rolling.

Any Tzeentch/Slaanesh heavy builds?

Slaanesh don't do remarkably well due to being shot off the board with ease. Everything is T3 or 4 with 5+ or 4+ saves. Poor to average toughness with poor to average durability yields units that die, then charge and die.

Tzeentch is decent shooting, but T3 and vulnerability to assault with very limited anti tank means that they also die pretty hard. Horrors are one of the better troop choices, though, simply because they grant you some moderate first strike ability.

My build was fairly different than the majority of the other builds at Baltimore the only similarity to a lot of the builds being my use of three grinders (I use tongue on mine). I posted my list over in the Orks, Orks, Orks, Baltimore gt thread.

The daemon army can be competitive. It does have it's rock/paper/scissor match ups that you are going to have to fight to pull out ties and minor wins from.

I still think people aren't familiar enough with the daemon dex and as more people become more familiar it will get harder for daemon players.

So a group of Plaguebearers were about to jump into real space, but one said, "Hey! We need shooting!" Luckily, they had their most hated foes - Horrors of Tzeentch- on speed dial. Once united (still hating each other) someone said "Who will do the killing stuff?" So the Horrors got on the phone with their most hated foes - Bloodletters- and soon they were ready to drop. The standard protocols were followed.

"Before trans-dimensional departures, all daemons must purchase 2-3 daemon princes. Please note that sworn alliances to gods other than your own are encouraged. In the event of a single die roll, your departure plans may be changed at any time. Please note that The Warp, Inc takes no responsibilities for any damage caused by scattering off table edges, Inquisitors, poor terrain, or just generally showing up with your pants around your ankles. thank you and enjoy your trip."

Way to hang out in previous editions. The rest of us are caught up to the new world order.

I wonder if anyone here sees a single God Army as viable? I have a 1500 slaanesh list I have played with, but it is not really viable. I could add plague bearers, but that is not in keeping with decades of tradition!

"New world order" my left foot!

Heh, I did pretty well at the Vegas GT with an all Khorne list (with Grinder support.)

They can be done but in addition to not being super efficient they can be a bit boring to play as each god's units have a specific role to play.

Basically, the new way feels kind of Eldar-ish to me with different specialists working together.

Nobody complains about a list mixing Eldar aspect warriors together - and an all dark reaper (and dark reaper "light" units) might be okay but it would also be boring and one dimensional.

Shep pointed out to me that I was a bit cranky in my earlier post, sorry about that.

All hail the immortal topic!!

My brother runs a Wraith list in 40k. It may not win all the time, but it has a lot of character. But you are right from a rules perspective! Each unit brings it's own talents to the board.

Reading over this thread again (5th time?) it just looks like if there was one army NOT to go with "just one god"- it would be slaanesh. I chose... poorly. hehe

What do you mean by one god? You could do pure slaanesh, but you would have to put some grinders in the list. Post up a list in the army lists section and we will help you with it.

I just recently started fielding Daemon armies (just started playing 40K for that matter). I've so far found that the Daemon armies I have built are viable and can be competitive, but it is very dependant on being EXTREMELY strategic with the deployment. Of course with the scatter this can be a pain.

One of the problems I have found with this army though is that it is ALWAYS at a weak point on the field due to the deep strike rule for half the army. We usually play 1,000 point games or the occasional 2,000 pointer and I find that at most I usually have half or less of my points value on the field. Because of this I have realized that maximum unit sizes is an absolute MUST if you want the Daemons to pose any real threat to whoever you're fighting. If you try to split this army into a variety of units you will most likely
see a lot of unused points sitting on the side at the end.

Of course I am still trying to figure out the ins and outs of this army so if anyone has any suggestions that they have found work I'd love to hear them.

I actually found max troop size to be a liability for anything but Nurgle Plaguebearers. It allows your opponent greater efficiency in their shooting damage (less opportunity for wasted wounds) and one or two consecutive bad rolls can see significant numbers of your reserves held out of the fight until turn 4. Maybe you've been luckier than I have, but running big squads of troops has definitely made a few games closer than they might have been otherwise.

In my gaming circle (Local GW shops, etc) My Daemons win 90% of the time, and only real trouble is Orks that field a lot of Lootas (2+ squads of 15 is brutal). Many games I have to squeeze for a tie or a minor victory vs orks w/loota spam.

Crushers are Amazing units and can be devastating.. if you run anything more than 10 of these guys its a done deal. However, it does make for a boring play; so I avoid anything that Im spamming units, not my style. I like to play more of a mixed list that require some finesse (which will make you a better player in the end).

My Lists look something like
BT, 4 crushers, 2x3 flamers, letters, PBs, Horrors, 2 Grinders, DP. I am planning on dropping some flamers and bump the crusher group to 8.

I am on the fence regarding them being competitive. Most games I dominate, and if I get my entire army on turn 2 its a wrap... However, I played many games where the dice rolls wasnt with me.. i.e. DS Mishaps and rolling 1s or 2s, 3 Units not coming in until turn 5. These things can really hurt you. Which in a tournament environment this can mean going from leading to loosing.

If they make some changes to their DS I can definitely them being all the way competitive on the verge of being Over Powered. That DSing is a gift and a curse, but it also helps to balance them. Daemons are just tough.. No instant deaths, and entire army ignores low AP weapons (besides FNP) is hardcore).

But thats my take.. if a daemon player rolls bad... they feel the pain WAY more than any other army.. which makes them not go all the way.

Mausama

the same thing happens if any player with any army rolls bad